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Post by Davy Wagnarok on Aug 10, 2015 15:14:02 GMT
Post any questions you have regarding using Brawl to ATTACK, DEFEND, and acquire N30N.
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Post by robertzdario on Aug 16, 2015 18:24:06 GMT
So, I am still not clear on how plusses to atk and def work. Here's a situation. Pong successfully used his Strike giving him +2 atk and +1 def this combat round. He plays an Uppercut which is his Brawl Specialty. His opponent plays a Duck. Usually the duck cancels the uppercut, but do those bonuses that Pong got from his Strike change the outcome?
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Post by robertzdario on Aug 16, 2015 18:34:46 GMT
So, I am still not clear on how plusses to atk and def work. Here's a situation. Pong successfully used his Strike giving him +2 atk and +1 def this combat round. He plays an Uppercut which is his Brawl Specialty. His opponent plays a Duck. Usually the duck cancels the uppercut, but do those bonuses that Pong got from his Strike change the outcome? let's add another thing: Pong has Suspenders euipped as well which give him another +1 to atk when Uppercutting. Let's also say the opponet who ducked had a brawl specialty for duck and the fighter adjacent to him played a Dumpster giving him +2 def. How do I math? |
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Post by robertzdario on Aug 16, 2015 18:50:31 GMT
Now what if we throw boosting into that scenario?
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Post by lance on Aug 17, 2015 9:02:46 GMT
So, I am still not clear on how plusses to atk and def work. Here's a situation. Pong successfully used his Strike giving him +2 atk and +1 def this combat round. He plays an Uppercut which is his Brawl Specialty. His opponent plays a Duck. Usually the duck cancels the uppercut, but do those bonuses that Pong got from his Strike change the outcome? given our discussion on boosting and "the power bar" analogy i'd say that first you see if the the attack connects or it is countered. then you apply bonuses from strikes, mastery and so on. thinking like we are in a fighting videogame, in your specific case we have a "pre boosted" situation in which your charachter "charged up". if the attack connected without neon you would have dealt 4 damage. given that when something is "cancelled" you reset everything up to that point. in your case i'd say duck wins and deals 1 damage from a succesful counterattack. Starting from this assumption the rest is easy: - if the opponent had mastery on defense he would deal 2 damage (1 for succesful counter +1 for mastery) - if you had suspenders you would have deal 5 damage if it wasn't countered - the dumpster would have soaked 2 hits if the attack connected dealing 3 damage - if you played duck you simply deal 2 damage of counterattack because walls only soak up damage and don't add to the counters Boosting: first you look who wins and calculate the damage - then is boosting time according to what we discussed already. IN SHORT: - you attack and opponent defends - does the attack connect? IF YES: add offensive mastery and atk bonuses from everything and subtract walls bonuses IF NO: add defensive mastery and defensive bonuses (walls only soak damage they don't add to the counter) - BOOSTING PHASE |
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Post by robertzdario on Aug 17, 2015 16:20:36 GMT
So how does Pong's +1 Def figure into that? His attack didn't connect so he gets dealt 2 damage from the duck. I guess since he has +1 Def then he only takes 1 damage.
If I got this right, the damage bonuses from items and strikes are like masteries and only apply if the attack connects. Boosting is done after the bonuses are added in and can stack with the bonuses?
Example: The opponent successfully defended Pong's uppercut with a Duck. He adds his Mastery to make it a +2 Duck. Pong's Uppercut card has two charges so he Boosts it twice making his Uppercut +2 also. This absorbs the Duck and no damage is dealt. However, the Duck has one slot into it. The defender Boosts his Duck making it a +3 which allows him to still deal one damage. Alas, Pong got a +1 Defense from his Strike and he takes no damage after all.
I feel like there should be a flow chart or something for this.
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Post by robertzdario on Aug 17, 2015 16:29:42 GMT
So, I am still not clear on how plusses to atk and def work. Here's a situation. Pong successfully used his Strike giving him +2 atk and +1 def this combat round. He plays an Uppercut which is his Brawl Specialty. His opponent plays a Duck. Usually the duck cancels the uppercut, but do those bonuses that Pong got from his Strike change the outcome? let's add another thing: Pong has Suspenders euipped as well which give him another +1 to atk when Uppercutting. Let's also say the opponet who ducked had a brawl specialty for duck and the fighter adjacent to him played a Dumpster giving him +2 def. How do I math? Let's change this a little bit to see if I am understanding this right. Let's say the defender played a Jump with three boost slots instead. Pong's Uppercut connected. It is a +2 with his Mastery. He gets another +2 from his strike and a +1 from his thread making his Uppercut +5. The defender, Ash from now on, boosts his Jump 3 times making it +3. Ash absorbs 3 damage with the boosted Jump. 2 damage gets through to Ash's Ash body. However, the Dumpster adjacent to him gave him +2 Defense. No damage is dealt. Did I do good? |
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Post by Davy Wagnarok on Aug 18, 2015 15:58:07 GMT
Reiterating what you wrote so it makes sense in my mind: Brawl Mastery only grants the user +1 with a Brawl, so I think the way you wrote it is right (Uppercut = 1, Brawl Master = 1; total = 2). Pong's Strike grants him an additional +2 to his attack, and he also has Threads that give him +1 when using uppercuts (total now = 5). Ash played a Jump, defeating the uppercut, which means Pong would lose his Brawl Mastery bonus if the damage was offset and in the opponent's favor. However, Pong used his Strike, so his attack is currently at 4. Ash boosts his Jump 3 times, making his defense total at 4. Even though their attack and defense bonuses are even, Duck defeats Uppercut, so Pong takes 1 point of damage and Ash draws 1 N30N. Do you see why this happened? After all the stuff that happened, they basically were left with bare-bones Uppercut and Jump, worth 1 point each. But what happens when an un-boosted Uppercut is met by an un-boosted Duck? Well, it says it under the "cancelled by" portion of the card! This is definitely one of the most complex scenarios I've seen conjured up for the game, but it's definitely a possibility! Does this help clarify things Robert?  |
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Post by robertzdario on Aug 18, 2015 16:59:54 GMT
Not quite... I have more questions now.
You said: "Ash played a Jump, defeating the uppercut," Jump cancels Sweep but not Uppercut. Did you mean "Duck" where you put "Jump"? You change it to "Duck" at the end of the paragraph. I proposed two different scenarios one where Ash played Duck to defeat the Uppercut and one where he played Jump and failed to initially cancel it.
Pong's Strike also grants him +1 Def so would he still take that 1 damage at the end from the Duck?
What I gather from what you posted is that attack bonuses granted from Threads and Strikes (not Brawl Mastery) still apply even if the Brawl was cancelled by it's opposing Brawl, and in order to avoid damage, the defender must boost his winning Defensive Brawl to meet the full value of the attack. Is this correct?
Also are you saying that all Brawl cards have a base value of 1 even if one of them is cancelled? I am confused.
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Post by lance on Aug 18, 2015 18:14:19 GMT
davy your answer confused me too... i thought i nailed down the phases but it seems it isn't the case... what i said was wrong then?
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Post by Davy Wagnarok on Aug 19, 2015 16:53:54 GMT
Sorry, guys! I think I am the one who's confused. It would be so much easier explaining this visually rather than via text. There's a saying out there that goes something like "some artists should be art teachers, while some art teachers should be artists." I am not very good at imparting knowledge to others, which is why the playbook took me months to complete. I am decent at explaining the gameplay when I have the cards and playmat right in front of me, though. Maybe we should all jump into NCR Alpha some time? Here's the link: plus.google.com/hangouts/_/g2wkm3cw5xiqbhu22jt2qum63maRobert, I apologize for the random Jump I threw in there. I did, in fact, mean Duck.  Also, I forgot about the bonus Pong gets to his defense with that Strike, so in this event, he would NOT take damage, which means the opponent would not be able to draw N30N. No, an attack Brawl would not count as 1 damage if it was cancelled. I was trying to say that each attack Brawl is worth 1 damage, unless cancelled. In the scenario above, after all the Threads and Strike and blah blah were taken into account, the players were left at a "stalemate", 1 attack vs 1 defense (now we know this is wrong because of Pong's Strike, but let's roll with it for a sec), however, because Duck cancels Uppercut, the defender wins the exchange. Did this clear things up, Robert and Lance? Sorry for the confusion, dudes! I would be more than happy to schedule an Alpha match to address some of these issues face-to-face!  |
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Post by robertzdario on Aug 19, 2015 17:37:33 GMT
I think I'm on the same page now. So if each attack Brawl is worth 1 unless cancelled, is each defense Brawl worth 0 unless it cancels the attack bringing it up to a 1? So if you boost a losing Brawl, you start with zero and add 1 for each boost? This kind of contradicts what you said before. I think the end result in my scenario would be 3 (Pong) vs 4 (Ash). Since Pong's uppercut was cancelled by Ash's Duck he lost the initial 1 point for his Brawl due to cancellation and doesn't gain the Brawl Mastery bonus either (another potential 1 point) bringing what could have been an Attack of 5 down to 3. This means that a loosing attack Brawl could still deal damage if the attacker gets bonuses from other things. Ash had to Boost his defense to deal damage even though he initially won. I could be confused again, though. :S I would like to schedule an NCR Alpha game, but I will have to put that on hold since I just moved and I don't have internet (I am posting this from my work computer.  Shhh!) yet. I regret that I didn't take advantage of it before the game was released, maybe I could have helped with the rulebook. I admit that the idea is kind of intimidating to me since I have never used Google Hangouts much less tried to play a table top game over it. Anyway, I will PM you when I get internet at my home and we can schedule a game. Thanks! |
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Post by Davy Wagnarok on Aug 19, 2015 18:25:38 GMT
I'll have to get back to you on this when I get off work tonight (I, too, am using my work computer to chat with you guys). I have a project at the library that needs wrapping up. I will address your question ASAP, Robert!
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Post by Davy Wagnarok on Aug 20, 2015 16:10:34 GMT
Sorry that I wasn't able to get back with you last night. I have been very busy at home with a comic book commission. I will respond to this as soon as I can tho! Take care, guys!
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Post by lance on Aug 24, 2015 18:57:19 GMT
judging by the chart for neon rudy posted i think it goes like i said:
Strike phase
- power activates: pong gets +2 atk and +1 Def
Brawl phase:
Scenario 1:
- pong plays Uppercut on which he has mastery
- Ash plays Duck
- the attack is nullified so Ash is dealing 1 damage... BUT Pong has +1 def putting the odds to a tie
- the wall played by another fighter doesn't come in effect
Scenario 2:
- Pong plays Uppercut with mastery
- Ash Plays Jump
- the attack connects: Pong deals 5 hits (1 for successful attack+1 for mastery +1 for suspenders +2 for the strike)
- Ash friendly fighter fortunately played a wall which has effect on ash too and that soaks up some of the damage (2 hits)
Boosting Phase:
- both player (regardless of scenario) can play neon accordingly to what we already discussed on the boosting forum
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Also, I forgot about the bonus Pong gets to his defense with that Strike, so in this event, he would NOT take damage, which means the opponent would not be able to draw N30N. No, an attack Brawl would not count as 1 damage if it was cancelled. I was trying to say that each attack Brawl is worth 1 damage, unless cancelled. In the scenario above, after all the Threads and Strike and blah blah were taken into account, the players were left at a "stalemate", 1 attack vs 1 defense (now we know this is wrong because of Pong's Strike, but let's roll with it for a sec), however, because Duck cancels Uppercut, the defender wins the exchange. 
Shhh!) yet. I regret that I didn't take advantage of it before the game was released, maybe I could have helped with the rulebook. I admit that the idea is kind of intimidating to me since I have never used Google Hangouts much less tried to play a table top game over it. Anyway, I will PM you when I get internet at my home and we can schedule a game. Thanks!